Episode 13 - Neurodiversity at work: Understood.org's Nathan Friedman on what leaders get wrong about 70 million employees
One in five Americans has a learning or thinking difference, and 53% of Gen Z identifies as neurodivergent — which means neurodivergent employees are already on your teams whether they've disclosed it or not. Nathan Friedman, Co-President and CMO of Understood.org, argues that the organizations best positioned to engage this talent aren't just the ones with the most progressive DEI policies. They're the ones that have quietly redesigned how work actually gets done — and they have the business results to prove it actually serves them.
What does "neurodiversity at work" actually mean for managers?
Here's a statistic we need to get real about: 53% of Gen Z identifies as neurodivergent. Combine that with the estimated 70 million Americans who have learning and thinking differences across all generations, and the math becomes hard to ignore – neurodivergent employees are already on your team. That means the question isn't whether to prepare for that reality, it's whether you already have (or haven’t).
When many managers hear "neurodiversity," they picture a formal accommodation process: HR paperwork, a doctor's note, a specific diagnosis. But that framing is part of the problem.
"Not everybody either can be seen to have that difference, or they may not know they have it. There's a lot of people who are subclinical, undiagnosed, or who simply cannot get diagnosed."
– Nathan Friedman, Co-President and Chief Marketing Officer of Understood.org
The practical implication is clear: you can't build neuroinclusive teams by waiting for people to self-identify. You have to build the conditions first.
What do neuroinclusive workplaces actually look like in practice?
The practices that support neurodivergent employees are largely identical to the practices that make anyone's work better. And they won’t impact your bottom line much.
"Most accommodations cost less than $200. A majority cost less than $100." – Nathan Friedman
Send an agenda before the meeting. Share questions in advance rather than springing them on people. Use AI-generated transcripts so that employees who struggle to simultaneously listen, contribute, and take notes don't have to choose which one to drop. Create office spaces with varied lighting, quiet zones, and soundproofing. Write job postings that list what's actually required, not a wishlist of 30 high-level must-haves that exclude many qualified candidates before the first conversation.
These aren't exotic interventions; they're basic conditions for clear thinking. The reason they disproportionately matter for neurodivergent employees is because without them, the cognitive load of navigating an environment not designed for their brains consumes capacity that could otherwise be going toward their actual work.
And even if you’re not neurodivergent, these accommodations are good news for you, too. Outdated hiring culture premiums placed on things like "great eye contact," a "firm handshake," or the ability to think fluently under surprise questioning can unintentionally screen out neurodivergent candidates – and these things typically have nothing to do with job performance.
Why is neurodivergent inclusion a business issue, not just a values issue?
The organizations that have figured this out aren't just generous (but I’m happy to share my Venmo @ with you if you want to be even moreso!). They're leading with results.
Companies that effectively engage neurodivergent talent see measurable improvements across the metrics that matter to any senior leader: more innovative problem-solving, better identification of new market segments, lower employee turnover, higher productivity, and stronger employee satisfaction scores.
"What senior leader or CEO wouldn't say yes, I want opportunities to increase top-line growth while [Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization] remains in line or increases as well?" – Nathan Friedman
The catch is that most organizations won't see those results if they rely on disclosure to identify who needs support. More than half of neurodivergent employees don't want to disclose their diagnosis out of fear of stigma or retaliation – and a significant number who do report facing one or both. That means the business case only materializes if neuroinclusive practices are built into the default operating system of the organization, not offered as exceptions for the people willing to raise their hand.
The model Nathan recommends is borrowed from a disability inclusive framework called universal design – what helps the most marginalized populations helps everybody. A curb built for wheelchair users also helps someone hauling a suitcase or pushing a stroller. A pre-read built for someone with ADHD also helps the executive who didn't have time to prep. So when you design for folks on the margins, you’ll see the whole system – very likely including your profit margins – improve.
What to do this week:
Consider your most recent team meeting with universal design in mind. If someone on your team had ADHD, dyslexia, or an auditory processing difference, would it have worked for them? If the honest answer is no, you've just found your starting point.
For your next team meeting, engage in the following practices:
Send the agenda and any discussion questions at least 24 hours in advance
After the meeting, enable an AI transcript and share it with the team
For managers who want to go further, Understood.org has free workplace resources including tools for both employees navigating learning and thinking differences and the managers who work alongside them.
Related Episodes
– The High Line and Beyond with Robbie Hammond
– Lead Like a Learner with Helen Tupper
– Judgment at Work with Sir Andrew Likierman
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Full Transcript
Read the full transcript
Nathan: We have shown that if you engage in neurodivergent talent internally, right, and you're inclusive and you have an environment that accommodates different styles of thinking, you have both top line and bottom line opportunities, right? And what senior leader, CEO, or whatnot wouldn't say, yes, I want opportunities to increase top line growth while bottom line, or EBITDA, however, whatever people wanna call it, you know, remains in line or increases as well.
Ben: Welcome to The Lift, the show about leadership, growth, and getting what we want. I'm your host, Ben Brooks. For over a decade, I've worked with CEOs, their executive teams, HR departments, and entrepreneurs to identify what drives their success and what holds them back. And now I'm excited to share those insights with you. On The Lift, we pull up to see the bigger picture from accomplished leaders who know how to get things done in a rapidly changing world. We've got all of that and a lot more coming up next on The Lift.
I think a lot about invisible diversity. When you walk into a room, you may not know if someone is gay, neurodivergent, a veteran, or navigating something that you just simply can't see. This idea is sometimes called the iceberg principle — the reminder that what shapes us often exists beneath the surface. And here's a number that might surprise you: in the United States, nearly 70 million people have learning and thinking differences, yet most workplaces aren't even designed in ways that help them to do their best work or even feel fully supported. Nathan Friedman is the co-president and chief marketing officer of Understood.org, a nonprofit dedicated to empowering people who learn and think differently. He's also the host of Minds at Work, a podcast that explores how neurodiversity fuels innovation and creativity in business and beyond. Today, Nathan helps us better understand what neurodivergence is, how it shows up in the workplace, and what employers and leaders can do to better support colleagues who identify as neurodivergent. He makes a powerful case that organizations that truly embrace neurodiversity don't just create a more inclusive culture — they gain meaningful competitive advantage. So let's get into it.
Nathan, good morning. Welcome to The Lift.
Nathan: Thank you for having me.
Ben: Well, thanks for having us in your fabulous studio here at Understood.org world headquarters.
Nathan: That's the global headquarters.
Ben: The global headquarters. You know, we typically open these interviews with a set of rapid-fire questions. And when we talk to you and your team, you actually explain to us that that's actually — so that's not gonna set people up for success from a neurodiversity perspective. So we want actually to start there. Why is that, and what's a better way to open things up?
Nathan: Sure. Sometimes people have processing challenges, right, and some people can't hear and process at the same time — auditory challenges — they are not able to respond in a way that is the most constructive. So by either providing questions in advance, allowing people to think about things, enables them to give the right answer or a answer. Oftentimes in interviews, right, people try and surprise people with questions that may or not be relative to the background of that individual. And best practice is, why wouldn't you want to give questions to the interviewee ahead of time, right? If you're asking 10 questions or however many, give to 'em ahead of time so they can practice, and then your follow-up questions can be in line with what you already ask them, to get better answers. And so it's just raising awareness that not everybody's brain is wired the same. And that is that concept of neurodiversity.
Ben: Well, we're actually gonna change the structure of how we warm up the show going forward, based upon your feedback.
Nathan: Well, thank you.
Ben: Just by even having you on the show, little steps all lead to bigger change.
Nathan: Absolutely.
Ben: So, Nathan, to start off, how do we define neurodiversity? What is it?
Nathan: Yeah, so I think the easiest way to think about it is everybody's brain is wired differently, and everybody has different components that make them who they are, and those individual differences is a spectrum, right? And life is all about spectrum. There's not one or the other. Similarly with neurodiversity, it's not you have it or you don't have it. It's different degrees. So the brain is wired differently. Everybody has differences in the way they process information and how they think, and those differences are as natural as anything else. Neurodiversity includes a broad variety of conditions — started in the nineties with autism, but it has expanded into a lot of other areas. Understood focuses on majority of those, right — specifically ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, and other processing and executive functioning conditions.
Ben: And it's not necessarily a deficit — you said it's just a different wiring of the brain.
Nathan: Yeah, look, I mean, I think, you know, deficit is my positive, and sure, in some construct, right, I think everybody thinks differently. Everybody has strengths and opportunities, and so while somebody may take longer to process something, they may do something else extremely well, and that extremely well is their superpower, right? If I think about my neurodiversity, it's about my ability to look through a challenge — and I mean through a challenge, all the way. I can almost grasp where the end state is in about five seconds, where it might take other people a long time to get there. So everybody has individual superpowers, and it's about finding those superpowers, particularly when you're at work, and leveraging those in not only a role, but in the capacity that's beneficial to all.
Ben: I worked at a summer camp at Stanford University when in college. I remember we had a saying: it's not how smart you are, it's how are you smart? And I see that with neurodiversity. And you mentioned that you're neurodivergent. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what your experience has been?
Nathan: Sure. I'll leave the trauma aside, but —
Ben: Bring it in. Whatever you'd like.
Nathan: You know, I think, you know, back when I was diagnosed of having a learning and thinking difference, it wasn't called that. And a lot of times it was pushed to the side or not recognized. So this goes back to when I was 10 years old, in the early to mid eighties. I'll let you figure out the math on that. And my parents noticed something was a little bit off back then. Everything was on bubble charts. I was filling in the wrong bubble. I could get the answer right, but the bubble was wrong. And so, you know, they tested that back then with me circling the answer and then filling in the bubble, and the teacher noticed that it didn't correlate. So B was not a B — it went to a D. I also wasn't able to control myself in the classroom. Sometimes I would get anxious or bored or just fidgety. And so I was diagnosed with ADHD, dyslexia, among a couple other things, back in the early eighties. And that, you know, set me on a path to help understand how I could leverage my skill sets better. Now, it was a hard road to get diagnosed back then, right? Because they tested your IQ, then they tested — if they thought it was not high enough, then they would test learning and thinking differences. But it was a struggle to get that done. And it was days of testing, being taken outta school and going multiple places. And if it wasn't for my mom back in those days, right, it would be very d—
Ben: Is it something that it's a diagnosis, or do people just identify as neurodivergent? Because as you said, a lot's evolved since the mid eighties when you were tested or diagnosed. And so this is still a very, you know, kind of fast moving and a little bit of a wild west space, and unfamiliarity. How do you see business people understanding? Is someone say, just, I am neurodivergent, or is that something that a doctor diagnoses?
Nathan: Yeah. So look, I think that there's a lot of different conditions under neurodivergent individuals, right? It can range anywhere from people with Down syndrome all the way to people who have Tourette's, and — there's a lot of other conditions. So what we're talking about today, I wanna be clear, is primarily on learning and thinking differences, okay? Right — either comorbidities or things that are consistent with autism or ADHD, dyslexia, et cetera. So within those span of conditions, there's a lot of people who are neurodivergent, right? I think the current estimate is around, you know, one in five, or 70 million Americans, which is still 20% — a significant number. Our recent data shows, from Understood, we find around 53% of Gen Z is identifying as neurodivergent. 53. That is identifying, which means they have the traits, okay, and/or they have been diagnosed. And with the multi-generational workforce, with increasing numbers as you get younger, you can see that the future is incorporating neurodiversity in much more of a meaningful way.
Now, going back to your other question around how it is to get diagnosed — it can cost a lot of money, right. And people — if you're younger, finding a neuropsych and finding the tutorials, it can cost anywhere from seven to $15,000. Just to find out if you are — just to get the actual legal paperwork, depending on where you are, depending on what the challenge is, right? And you think of a lot of families in America right now — they can't afford that. And you compound that with difference in diagnosis rates between boys and girls, because things manifest differently. You compound that with the availability of doctors, which is very few and far between. And lastly, there's, you know, six or seven markers for ADHD — if you have five out of the six or seven, does that really mean you don't have some level? You know, it's really a complex topic, and one that we're unpacking not only at Understood, but we're working with World Health Organization in the UN to really help understand, what does this all mean? And how do we create environments and workplaces that work for all.
Ben: And, you know, some people that listen to this podcast will certainly know about the Americans with Disabilities Act and accessibility and accommodations, and there's been a lot of corporate awareness in the last 30 years in that, and a lot of progress. Is neurodiversity a part of that? Is it different? How can people think about general disability inclusion and ADA versus neurodiversity, and how those play together or don't?
Nathan: Right. And I think to answer that question, let's take one step back, and that's around what is the kind of concept of the Americans with Disabilities Act, right? And it's helpful to level that playing field, right? And through the concept of universal design, right? What helps the most marginalized populations helps everybody. That is really kind of some of the concepts that lead into accessibility and that apply to neurodiversity. So if you think about the concept of curb cuts, which is the most commonly used example, right — they are created for people with wheelchairs, so people with wheelchairs could get up onto a sidewalk easily. Well, it also helps —
Ben: Me with my big suitcase.
Nathan: Right? You with your big suitcase rolling down the street. It helps with a lot of other individuals who are, you know — whether they're pulling a grocery cart here in New York City or they're pushing a stroller, or people have mobility issues. You know, it helps a lot of people, and there's a lot of benefit to that. And you can think about how that translates to accessibility. If you create an accessible design, whether it's online or a program design, or you work in an accessible way for people, you not only help people who are neurodivergent, but you help everybody. And so neurodiversity is a component of the Americans with Disabilities Act, but not everybody is as seen in that — meaning not everybody who is neurodivergent shows symptoms or shows that they are neurodivergent just by looking at them. Obviously, somebody in a wheelchair, you can observe a visual cue, right? I think that the trick here is, not everybody either — A, you can see that difference on them, or B, they may not know they have the difference, 'cause there's a lot of people who are subclinical or are not diagnosed or cannot get diagnosed. So it all is woven together. I think there's a lot of different opportunities to help people perform better. The accommodations conversation is directly linked to the ADA, and yet it's still a tricky topic for many employers, because there's a stigma attached to it. People don't know where to go for accommodations, and a lot of organizations, whether they're HR forward, I'll call it, may not want to step their toe or dip their toe into the ableist language, but, you know, move forward with accommodations proactively because of legal requirements that they now take on.
Ben: You mentioned the stats around 53% of Gen Z and one in five Americans. So a lot of our customers have spans and layers of about 10 team members to a manager. I mean, two of their team members are potentially neurodivergent, whether they're aware of it or diagnosed or not. And even that manager may be, and they could be as well. We mentioned universal design. What would be a universal design or an accommodation that, again, creates the best for everyone?
Nathan: So I think we're talking about two different things there, right? When you think about accommodations, those are things that can be provided by the organization that accommodate your difference. So if you think about things like a monitor, sitting away from a busy area, a space to work quietly, flexibility at work, a keyboard — those are all types of accommodations. Some of them, a lot of companies offer, right. But there are other types of accommodations that may be required that a medical doctor has to provide a note to get, right. When you're talking about how people can work and ways of working, there's a lot of things that cost nothing. And I should say, before I get into that, most accommodations cost less than $200. A majority cost less than a hundred. So these aren't expensive accommodations.
Ben: It's not like you have to build out a new wing of your office or add a budget line for these.
Nathan: No, but I will asterisk that — if you are building out your office, there are ways you can do that completely differently. But I think if you think about ways in which working with individuals who learn and think differently at work, you have to assume that you won't know. And so when you're talking with somebody, when you're engaging with somebody, you know, sometimes it's how are ways of working, right — discussing and deciding on how should we communicate. But I think if you don't know, if you're not in that direct kind of line of communication: sending a pre-read out before a meeting so somebody can read it and digest it and come prepared to talk. Number two, you know, having meeting notes or, you know, transcripts driven by AI — whether it's Gemini, Copilot, or whatever system you use — sometimes people with ADHD or dyslexia have trouble taking notes, listening, contributing at the same time. Multitasking in that way can be extremely anxiety producing, or just you don't get the thinking or the engagement you want. Similarly, you can also do things like set a meeting agenda. You can structure meetings a certain way. You can have consistent formats. All of those things help everybody.
Ben: Well, it sounds like a good manager. I mean, when I think of my background in management, consulting, HR — for any employee to have clear expectations, structure, priorities, a memorial or record of what was decided, for preparation — I mean, that seems like just managerial best practice.
Nathan: It is best practice. Yeah. But it's not followed, of course. And I think it's a common — it disproportionately impacts those who learn and think differently.
Ben: And you mentioned it's often an invisible thing. You know, being LGBTQ myself, I can relate to something that's not always that present to someone. I could imagine you wouldn't wanna put that in a job application or ask, you know, are you neurodivergent? But how do you create the environment that allows people to advocate for their needs or, yeah, disclose in a way that doesn't have them feel maybe out on a limb, discriminated against, or othered from the start?
Nathan: I think, you know — I'm LGBT as well, and there is something in that kind of corner of the world called passing privilege, right? With learning and thinking differences, sometimes they're more pronounced. They're not — like ADHD, there's not just one, there's three types, and it's expressed differently for men and women. For women it's more internal, and for men, sometimes that means it's more externally identified. And so there are some traits you may notice. It's brutally important to note that you may not notice them. So you may have observable traits, but you're not a clinician, you're not a doctor — you can't diagnose what they're going through. So having the ability to understand and the flexibility that, you know — you wanna lead by example and open up dialogues for people to have discussions around it. Now, not everybody wants to disclose, and that is a personal, very personal choice, right. Research that we've shown unfortunately shows that, you know, roughly 60% of people do not wanna disclose, and a significant number have been retaliated against for disclosing. You know, you have to know the environment you're in. You have to understand the relationships you have, the type of work you have, 'cause there are some downsides. And that's significantly unfortunate. And by the way, it's illegal.
I think on the flip side, right — if you look for a company that has accommodating practices, right — so if you look at the recruitment process: does the application time out? Is it really opaque and vague? You know, is the website —
Ben: Even visually accessible. I mean, basic things.
Nathan: Yeah, I mean, those are basic things that — so the company may not be as inclusive as you would think. Some companies ask, do you need an accommodation during the interview process, right. Other organizations who are more tech forward may decide that neurodivergent talent is critical for where they are, right? But they — you obviously can't just hire neurodivergent help, but what you can do is identify the skills that are required, and people can look for those jobs, whether it's coding or process improvement or different type of jobs where that helps. So it's keeping an open mind, looking for the organizations that do that. And if you're at an organization, look for ways in which you can create engaging and accommodating opportunities for everybody, right? If you're on the recruiting team, ask for the job posting to include just what's required. We've all seen job postings with like 30 different must-haves. If you're a neurodivergent applicant, you're gonna generally go through all this and think you have to meet all of them, and you're looking for a unicorn that spits rainbows and flies, and that's not generally what you get. And so you're weeding out some of your best talent by not being specific about what you need, and you're throwing the kitchen sink in there, so to speak. Similarly, if you're at an employer, give the questions ahead of time. Make sure that somebody can look through the questions and come prepared. If you're in a space that has the capability, ask if an accommodation is needed, because a lot of people who have autism or other conditions may not want to be in a closed room, a small environment. And I think the other thing, which is really kind of an outdated thing, is like, oh, I loved how they shook my hand. They had a great handshake. They looked me in the eye. You know, those things are also not necessarily congruent with inclusive hiring practices. So those are all kind of examples, what you can watch out for.
Ben: Generally, the interview process for most folks — their candidates — is horrible. In general, it's anxiety producing, no matter what. I mean, oftentimes people don't even know who they're interviewing with. If you go to an office for a day, if it's really buttoned up, you'll get the profiles or the bios or the LinkedIn things in advance. But to not even know who's gonna walk in the door or what the focus of the interview is, let alone the questions — I mean, why are we trying to surprise people? It's not really how work works every day, unless you're in the —
Nathan: Surprise factory. Right. I just don't get it. Look, I mean, companies do what they do. I think that those companies are underperforming. And let's not twist a couple words here. I think we have shown that if you engage in neurodivergent talent internally, right — assuming they get through the hiring process — and you're inclusive and you have an environment that accommodates different styles of thinking, you have both top line and bottom line opportunities, right? Top line opportunities by identifying new market segments, solving problems quicker, delivering more innovative solutions to clients or to your customers or to your consumers, depending on the type of company you are. And there's also bottom line improvements, right? You have reduction in turnover, you have increase in productivity, and you have dramatic increase in employee satisfaction or net promoter score, based on engaging your most productive employees. And what senior leader, CEO, or whatnot wouldn't say, yes, I want opportunities to increase top line growth while bottom line, or EBITDA, however, whatever people wanna call it, you know, remains in line or increases as well — especially in this type of environment.
Ben: Are there certain types of roles or industries that might be magnets for neurodivergent talent? You know, is there certain stats around whether you have more pronounced neurodivergent talent or less?
Nathan: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of that has not fully been studied yet, but I think from some work we've done on research, we've seen the creative field over-index on neurodiversity. We've seen upward of 50% of the creative industry be neurodivergent, which is in line with 53% of Gen Z, right? Jobs around coding or repetitive tasks also lend themselves to people who are neurodivergent. But I think the real thing is, a lot of people may not know they are neurodivergent, and so looking at any type of task, right, is important. And looking at any type of role, classification is also important. You don't want — if you do know yourself, you are dyslexic — you may not want to take a role that is about proofreading. And so, you know, there may be job forward opportunities that an individual needs to consider, because I'm a firm believer in this: when you get into a job, you need to perform at that job. Just because you're neurodivergent does not mean you cannot perform in the role that you've been hired for. Now, you need to be given the skills to adapt to the environment you're in and the accommodations for you to succeed, right. And whether or not you ask for them and disclose is your own personal choice, but you have to create an environment that works for you. And so if you do those things, you are also required to perform in the job. And that's really important for people to remember. It's just — it's not something you fall back on. It's an opportunity for you to lean into your strength and lean into what you can do, not what others should do for you to accommodate something that's a part of your job.
Ben: Yeah. I think that some folks confuse sort of the accommodations of the inclusion with sort of reshaping the job around what they want it to be. You know, for instance —
Nathan: Well, you have that everywhere. I mean, whether you're neurodivergent or not.
Ben: Exactly. I mean, there's things — I don't wanna travel, but I want to be in a traveling sales role.
Nathan: That would be a great example, right. I think that, you know, there's also generational differences within that. Like, oh, I really hate doing paperwork, or, you know, the modern thing of entering things. Well, everybody has a component of that administrative part of their role. That's part of any job. How do you do that, or how do you get the skills or support to do that if you're neurodivergent, right? You know, I'm saying you can't do something like travel because you don't like travel, but you're in a role that travels — that's a inconsistency, an incongruence, that an individual should say, that's not for me. I need to find a different role.
Ben: And I think sometimes moving that can't from the can — if I can do this, if this — and some of that bargaining. And I think I was thinking back to the LGBT conversation of — you've got both the employees that are maybe not disclosing, you've got the managers who may not be thoughtful or inclusive or signaling that they would be. You know, how do you work that dance? Because we saw recent studies that mental health of employees is impacted more by their manager than by a therapist, if they see one, and equally as much as their spouse. So I realize we're not talking directly about mental health, but the manager-employee relationship is about 80% of engagement, retention, et cetera. So a lot of the intersection here, I think, is between those two people.
Nathan: Right. And I think — I mean, look, I think you can unpack that in a couple different ways, right? I think the unsaid component of what question you asked is intersectionality, right? Intersectionality plays a huge role in how you identify and what, you know, how you lead your identification with, right. I don't lead with neurodiversity at work. That's not who — even though I'm in a neurodivergent organization that over-indexes neurodiversity, right? It's a component of who I am. Other people are like, no, this is my marker. This is how I identify. And that's okay. Both are okay. Everybody has their own journey, and so there's a lot of complexity and nuance in this, and managers have the opportunity to not only manage, but also help lead. And everybody has a leadership responsibility at work — different podcasts, different time. Leading your own career versus having somebody else drive your career — you know, there's huge different opportunities there. But I think that the organization has a responsibility to ensure those managers have the tools to manage effectively. So how do you provide the tools so a manager understands the differences in communicating with neurodivergent individuals? Now, you don't teach that — what you help people learn is the best practices in providing feedback, the best practices in leading diverse teams, right? And so that includes neurodivergent individuals, which is, again — if you design for the margins, you help everybody. Like, who wouldn't want to give feedback better? Who wouldn't —
Ben: Clarity of expectations or priorities.
Nathan: You got it.
Ben: And know where they stand on something.
Nathan: You got it. And, you know, is the deadline really important, or is it really — they get it, right. And, you know, so both can be true.
Ben: Well, you mentioned office design. Max, who's helping to produce this today, gave us a beautiful tour of your offices, and we saw, you know, how some things that you've done differently in this office. I often think the open plan environment — where we saved money by jamming people together in these loud environments for collaboration — was often for real estate savings. You know, how do people design better offices in terms of universal design? Because people work from home and they're often way more productive, right?
Nathan: I don't know if that's true. And I think you can find a survey that says they are, and they're not. So I don't want to go down that. But what I think the critical path that we should really focus is, how do you get the most out of your team, whether that's home or whether that's at work? I think that the best is having a flexible arrangement, right. Some jobs can be done remote, some jobs cannot be done remote, for sure. And there's a lot of value in building teamwork and collaboration around specific topics in person. When you're looking at the space, right — I think what we've done at Understood — and, you know, we built out our space — you know, we signed our lease, what, like a few days before the pandemic happened in 2020. You know, so we had some time to retro— to build it out. But, you know, we wanted to make sure we were thoughtful in creating different zones. So people who wanted different lighting styles, different textures of furniture — we have soundproofing, we have different cues. We try and lower cognitive load by designing and naming our conference rooms by where they are. Not like the George Washington room or, you know — so, yeah, it's like, where is that? You know, it's 1, 2, 3, and it's, you know, east or west, and we have markers on the ceiling so you can see where you're going. There's a lot of things like that that really create an inclusive environment. Kay Sargent of HOK wrote a book about designing for neuroinclusive spaces. It's phenomenal. If anybody listening wants to go out there and grab that — we'll put it on the show notes. It's great. But there's things you can do that may not cost extra money, but that go a long way to driving productivity, and those things, again, help everybody.
I think one of the key things that cost zero is flexibility, right? You mentioned working from home, working from the office. We have something called rhythm of work, which means we have set days we're in the office, so expectations are set ahead of time. So Wednesdays and Fridays are heads down days, working from home, remote. If you wanna come to the office, you're obviously welcome to. Some people in New York City — multiple roommates, et cetera — you can't really work from home. And, you know, that's when I go back to, not everybody can work constructively from home. But, you know, Monday we set the agenda for the week. Tuesday is team collaboration days. Wednesday, at home, get the work done. Thursday, problem solving. Friday, wrap up and get your things in order for the following week. And that rhythm tends to help people. Now, how you apply the rhythm and how you monitor the rhythm and all that stuff is by company, and it's an art and a science. I think we're working through to optimize it for us. And obviously, if you're a factory, you can't do that. So for knowledge workers, there's a lot of opportunity to create the environment and the space and the expectations that get the most outta your team members.
Ben: When you think about that environment and space and the simple things you can do — for managers that are listening, they're like, gosh, I might have neurodivergent people on my team — are there things that they can do? They — yeah, they very well likely do, based on the numbers. You know, again, you mentioned a hundred or $200 is the average accommodation. Are there just very practical things that they could do beyond the core managerial best practices? Are there things that, from a thinking and learning differences perspective, that would make a difference?
Nathan: I mean, giving people some flexibility, if you have that opportunity. If they need, you know, focus time, let them take that focus time. Give them an opportunity to preview materials in advance. Making sure that there's AI abilities embedded in how you operate, to advance some of the remedial tasks that may have stunted some of the development of materials. And those are all things that basically cost nothing. And some managers have zero budget to do things. Others — just be mindful that that exists, and being open to coaching people through challenges, not just demanding that they conform to what you think they should do.
Ben: So some managers would be rather hard edge, to say, well, if they need flexibility, they should just take it. If they need a tool, they should just buy it or use it. How do you have them sort of signal that the manager is open to that?
Nathan: Yeah, I think this goes back to having a corporate culture that supports it. If the corporate culture does not support it, a manager's not gonna support it, or the manager will be the outlier. You can't focus on what you can't change, right? If you can't change it, it's not gonna be helpful. So managers who are listening and want to do something — it's about being that champion supporter. Ask leaders in the organization to perhaps set up a BRG or an ERG, if your company allows those. Or working with HR to identify what are paths that we can do, and being that advocate and champion, right? In the old classic way of how we think about raising awareness and reducing stigma and driving advocacy, you have to do those three things, right? You have to raise awareness, so you reduce stigma and drive advocacy. Think of the Will & Grace effect, right? In the late nineties, you drove awareness of LGBT individuals living regular lives, working normal jobs, quote unquote, 'cause back then there was a stigma that most gay men worked as hairstylists or makeup artists, you know? And so it showed people in different light, that then in turn reduced stigma. And once you reduce stigma, advocacy grows. There's a lot of work we have to do, but that's why we're here at Understood, and that's where we know we need to go.
Ben: We're ending today with Lift Your Cause, a segment where guests get to champion a cause, a movement, or mission that's got them fired up and tell us why we should be paying attention to it too. Well, we have one last thing, Nathan. So whether it's your day job or beyond, what is something you're passionate about that other people should be interested in or know more about?
Nathan: Number one: Understood, right. If you have the opportunity, you know, go to Understood.org/donate, and you can donate to Understood and/or learn more about the resources we have that can help you not only at work, but at home and life, 'cause that's often an overlooked subject. Also, I think it's an important time to look at other different causes that are now underfunded or under-recognized based on the macro environment we're in. A lot of those are personal to you. For my career — I was in marketing and agency life forever. I'm part of the 4A's Foundation board of directors, and that helps next generation talent — underrepresented talent — thrive at and in agencies and in marketing organizations, because those representation numbers are dwindling. And so there's a lot of different organizations that really hit home to people at different points in their life.
Ben: Nathan, thanks for coming to the show.
Nathan: Thank you so much for having me.
Ben: Thanks for joining me this week on The Lift. For more info on what you heard in today's episode, visit our show notes. You can find bonus resources at pilot.coach/thelift. If listening to The Lift today was a good use of your time, please share it with a colleague, a friend — I don't know, your ex, your mother, anyone. Don't let good advice die with you. And for those of you who like to earn a little bit of extra credit, leave a comment on Spotify. We'd love to hear from you. The Lift is produced and edited by the team at editaudio. This episode was produced and edited by Ali Sirois, with additional production support from Victoria Marin. Our production manager is Kathleen Speckert. Our executive producer is Steph Colbourn. A special thanks to Korey Rich and Beth Gatsik. There's only one way to go — upward.
