Episode 06 - Using Community Leadership to Grow Business: How Sachin Shivaram Invests His Time Beyond the Office
In this episode of The Lift, Ben is joined by Sachin Shivaram, the first non-family CEO of the nearly 110-year-old Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry. Sachin is also an adjunct faculty member at the Schneider School of Business at St. Norbert College and serves on the boards of half a dozen companies and organizations, including the Green Bay Packers.
Key takeaways:
Community leadership isn’t a distraction, it’s a growth strategy – serving on boards and civic committees provides strategic insight, policy influence, and access to funding
Board service can directly benefit your company
Democratizing engagement builds trust with employees. Think: Facebook groups instead of forcing them into “corporate” channels
Technology + relationships = real-time leadership. Use calendars, communication tools, and short, focused check-ins aggressively
Childcare is both a business and a moral issue; employers must play a role in better childcare access
Old-school rituals – weekly family dinners, long conversations, small-town community life – still matter
What happens when a manufacturing CEO decides that his job doesn’t end at the factory gates? In today’s episode, Sachin and Ben dig into community leadership, board service, and childcare advocacy as tools to actively grow a business (rather than distract from it).
Sachin runs a 100+ year-old, family-founded aluminum foundry in Wisconsin that pours molten metal into sand molds to create mission-critical parts for medical equipment, trucks, cookware, and more. It’s classic American manufacturing in a sector that’s been under pressure for decades, from globalization to talent shortages to policy whiplash.
Yet instead of hunkering down and only focusing on on-time delivery and scrap rates, Sachin’s calendar is full of board meetings, economic development councils, university trustee roles, and even a directorship with the Green Bay Packers.
So…why would a CEO in a turbulent industry say yes to more responsibility?
According to Sachin, strategic board work actually makes him a better, more effective CEO. Sitting on the board of companies like Lodge Cast Iron, he sees different markets, capital structures, and approaches to strategy and risk. Those patterns feed directly back into his decision-making at Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry. In one example, he describes how seeing another company use the U.S. New Markets Tax Credit program helped him recognize that WAF was eligible, too, resulting in roughly 25% of a major capital project being offset through the program. That’s real money, and a powerful argument for why board service can be ROI-positive for your day job.
We also get a behind-the-scenes look at how Sachin manages optics and bandwidth. He knows that to his board, his employees, and his customers, the perception of a distracted CEO could be a risk. His antidote? Radical transparency and relentless follow-through:
Every morning at 8:05 am, he and his leadership team run a detailed standup
Employees can reach him directly via text or on plant-specific Facebook pages
He continually shows up with specifics about defects, staffing, and shipments that prove he’s deep in the details
That same “meet people where they are” philosophy drives how he communicates with a politically diverse workforce. In a rare move for a CEO, Sachin openly shares who he votes for, writes politically biased opinion pieces, and posts them in employee Facebook groups where people comment freely, including the occasional “Sachin, don’t play ignorant.” Instead of hiding his beliefs or banning politics from the workplace, he leans on a simple principle: if you’re going to say something, say something. That candor helps build trust across very different political views while keeping the focus on how national policy actually hits the shop floor.
Outside the plant, Sachin’s home life is intense but intentional. He and his wife (a McKinsey partner) are raising two boys while navigating demanding careers, and a very full calendar. The infrastructure that makes it possible includes aggressive use of shared calendars and old-school rituals like Friday night family dinners at their favorite Wisconsin supper club.
One of the most powerful moments of the episode comes when Sachin talks about childcare and early childhood brain development; he is often invited to share his POV that childcare is a workforce issue – how employers need it so parents (especially mothers) can work. What really moves him here is the neuroscience behind this framing: the permanent impact of what happens from ages 0–5 on a child’s brain, and how inconsistent, low-quality care can shape their entire life. After hearing stories from his own employees about patchwork childcare arrangements, he became a vocal advocate for better systems and started offering stipends and structural support through the company.
Throughout the episode, Ben and Sachin return to one big theme: being a great leader in your company often requires stepping outside it. Whether it’s lobbying for policy that impacts your industry, serving on boards that sharpen your strategic thinking, or investing in childcare that shapes the next generation, leadership that’s confined to your org chart is too small for the challenges of today’s economy.
If you’re a CEO, executive, or rising leader wondering how to juggle your core job with board ambitions, community service, and family life – without burning out – this conversation is a masterclass in purposeful over-commitment and community-driven leadership.
Links:
Full Transcript
Read the full transcript
Sachin: We at our company just believe in the philosophy of if you're gonna say something, say something. You know, otherwise don't. And so that's the approach to politics, and I love it. I find it's very refreshing.
Ben: Welcome to The Lift, the show about leadership, growth, and getting what we want. I'm your host, Ben Brooks. For over a decade, I've worked with CEOs, their executive teams, HR departments, and entrepreneurs to identify what drives their success and what holds them back. And now I'm excited to share those insights with you. On The Lift, we pull up to see the bigger picture from accomplished leaders who know how to get things done in a rapidly changing world. We've got all of that and a lot more coming up next on The Lift. Hey everyone. Today we're joined by Sachin Shivaram, the CEO of Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry. Truth be told, I was a little nervous about this conversation. Sachin is not only a CEO, but he's on more boards than I can count on one hand, including the Green Bay Packers. He's also a dedicated community member, family man, and he advocates for better childcare for his employees. Talk about goals. In our conversation, Sachin shares insights that I think a lot of leaders could benefit from. He shows us how CEOs and executives can commit to the greater good of not just their company, but of their communities more broadly. And paradoxically, he shows how spending time outside of his company sometimes has the biggest impact to his company. I'm so excited to introduce you to Sachin. Let's get into it. Well, Sachin, welcome to The Lift.
Sachin: Thank you, Ben. Great to be here.
Ben: Sachin, we're gonna start with a few rapid fire questions to lift up our energy, have people get a better sense of you, and get us started. What's a hobby or pastime that you enjoy?
Sachin: Running. I have been a runner for 30 years. Actually, it started out when I was a kid — I was actually quite obese. And my brother was a runner, and one day he said, you know, you should try running. And I ran around the park across our street one day, and since then it's been just a fundamental part of my life, and something I can take everywhere I go.
Ben: And what's one of your favorite places on this earth?
Sachin: As a kid, I spent a lot of time in India. My parents are from India, and my mother would take my brother, sister and I to India for the entire summer — sometimes even before the school year ended, all the way until the day it started. And really, we never had a summer in Wisconsin. And, you know, our home in India, where my grandparents lived, in a city called Maur, which is in the southern part of India, in the state of Karnataka, is a place I think about a lot.
Ben: Southern India in the summer as well, probably. You're prepared for hotter summers now. What was your first job ever where you got paid for time or effort?
Sachin: I was a legal secretary at a local law firm called Quarles & Brady in Milwaukee, where I grew up. And definitely because of this job that I had, they are our legal counsel right now. But yeah, I was paid $7 an hour. I was a summer legal secretary, and mostly I would transcribe conversations. But yeah, that was certainly something that helped put me on the path to going to law school. It was intense.
Ben: And you're in Wisconsin, in the heartland of the United States. What's a best kept secret or a surprise that people that haven't been to or are not from Wisconsin should hear?
Sachin: You know, there is a strong culture of community. You know, this might not be a shocking revelation to anybody, but there's so many people that we live with and work with who have moved outta the state and come back. They come back because of, you know, this is where I feel like I'm part of something. And I think it has a lot to do with the geography, but Wisconsin has, you know, kind of an abundance of these small 10,000-person, 5,000-person towns that really are good grounds for building community. And this is the feature of the state that — in our home — that really brought us back.
Ben: One of the features that I think a lot of people know about is cheese. Do you have a favorite cheese?
Sachin: Cheddar, you know, is the go-to here. But actually there are varieties of kind of mozzarella-type cheeses that are coming out now, made by a company called BelGioioso, that people might think is based in Italy, but actually it's in Denmark, Wisconsin. And I drive by their factory every day.
Ben: Are you a beer drinker?
Sachin: Yes. Yeah.
Ben: Do you have a beer that you prefer, or —
Sachin: Yeah, there's a beer called Moon Man, made by New Glarus here in Wisconsin. It's like a lager with a little bit of a bitter, hoppy, you know, finish to it, but not as kind of heavy as an IPA.
Ben: And, you know, if we were to have one of your best friends describe you in a few words, how would they say Sachin is — da-da?
Sachin: Curious. And this conversation is very much unlike the normal conversation I have, which is generally it's one-directional, where I'm asking all the questions, you know? And I just really enjoy peppering people with questions. Yesterday I had lunch with another local CEO, and, you know, we were there for an hour, and I just — I really enjoy that. So I think curious, and probably intense, you know. I think that's probably another word they might use to describe me.
Ben: Those might be actually in mine as well. Someone once asked me, what do you love about yourself? And I said, my intensity. What do you hate about yourself? And I said, my intensity. So, yeah.
Sachin: Sounds about right.
Ben: Well, Sachin, as I was preparing for this episode, I thought to ground us — you know, you are the CEO of an aluminum foundry. How should people understand or visualize what an aluminum foundry does, or what yours does specifically?
Sachin: Our main activity is we pour aluminum into molds to make custom shapes for our customers. So our customers can be any type of manufacturing company, whether you're making medical equipment or truck parts or cookware. And so we make the molds out of many different elements, but primarily sand, which is actually a millennia-old process. You know, thousands of years people have been making castings in the very same way. We make a mold out of sand, and then we pour molten aluminum into it. And then we destroy the mold to harvest the part.
Ben: And given your industry is part of manufacturing, in recent times there's been a lot of changes in disruption in the external context. Externally, tariffs have massively changed your context. Changes to government funding that supports programs for economic development for small and mid-size businesses that help you become more competitive or advance your engineering practices. You know, what has it been like for you as a leader and a CEO dealing with such rough waters?
Sachin: In our corner of manufacturing, not only are the waters rough, but they're flowing against us. You know, I mean, the natural flow of our economy is we allocate, you know, our precious resources, capital and human, to the best uses of that. And actually aluminum castings is kind of a low value add. Well, it's high value add in the manufacturing sense, in that we're not just putting something together, we're transforming a product, but it is low value add in a broad economic sense. And so we're constantly swimming against this trend of there are better uses for capital. Other companies can pay people more and get more value outta that. So this has been the current for the past — forever, but really it's been intense for the past 30 years, you know, where, as the American economy has evolved into a more service economy, there are higher paying jobs out there and better uses of capital. And so we've been swimming against that, you know, holding our own by adding more value to what we do. We make higher quality parts, we do more services on them, and we try to add on other services to kind of at least tread water. Now, more recently, there has been kind of a national consensus around, hey, these are jobs that actually we need, we wanna preserve — for national security, but also because they're fun jobs. You know, you get to touch what you make. And so the turbulence today is actually more generated by probably the government trying to figure out how do we help people like Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry. And there's not one way, you know, and something that might help us — hurt someone else, you know? And so that's where we see the tariffs. For instance, some of the tariffs might be beneficial for us, but they make our customers less competitive, because it raises their costs, and then maybe their demand goes down. So this swirl of hard-to-control consequences is what's creating this turbulence right now. So how is it, you know, running a company? We just have to focus on our North Star, you know, which is how are we continuing to be distinctive in our market? And as long as we're special, and as long as we're doing high quality things, there's gonna be a place for us in the world. But certainly, you know, in these turbulent times, you're spinning all which way and you don't know if you're actually headed in the right direction, and you can feel un—
Ben: And if I was at a dinner table with maybe your wife, who's a professional at McKinsey, and your boys, what's different? Are you more stressed? Are you more tired? Are you working more, are you running more, are you running less? Like, I'm curious about this sort of very personal impact on you.
Sachin: Yeah. This year has been, you know, very stressful, driven in large part by challenges at our respective companies. McKinsey has been in the news, and certainly people can read about the challenges that they have had. She's been there 15 years and loves the company and believes passionately in their work, but that has been stressful for her. Actually, this week she's traveling to Prague, and, you know, I'm with our boys on our own. And then for me too, you know, things have been — demand has been down, you know, we've had gut-wrenching challenges, we've had some layoffs. You know, we've made investments that aren't paying off right now. So, yeah, it has been stressful. And then I'm involved in other companies, you know, at a board level, and challenges are the same. I've had some running injuries, and I think there's something, you know, physical pain in your body that connects to your mind, and it amps up the level of stress. And then there's also, you know, just getting older. I'm 44, my wife is 45, where, you know, it's — man, everything everyone says about growing older and how your body takes longer to recover, how you, you know, probably need more sleep sometimes. All of that. And then our boys, you know, they are eight and 13, and they are very active, and we have a lot of help to help us get through the days, but everything just feels continually more intense, and it has been tough.
Ben: We're the same age, and I'm on similar journey of the reckoning of, you know, getting older. I themed my year the year of vitality, so I've had sinus surgery and a bunch of other medical things, and changed a lot of my wellbeing, and doing a lot of different wellness things as well. So I can certainly empathize there. And when — you know, I remember reading a piece that you wrote in the Washington Post, and you invited at the time President Joe Biden to one of your facilities, and then a bunch of your employees showed up and they were in Make America Great — the red baseball caps. And I'm just curious, as a leader, I thought, what a dance to be in, because you're talking to people on both sides of the aisle. You're going with coalitions of CEOs to DC to talk to people in the Republican administration, and you've worked with Democrats, et cetera. You have your own political beliefs. You know, so many CEOs shy away from that. But you brought that forward, because there is a national conversation and a desire to do some of this. But what was that experience like for you?
Sachin: Yeah, on having President Biden here — actually we had hosted him during the 2020 campaign, so it was the tail end of the 2020 campaign, and then of course he ended up winning, and he won Wisconsin. The majority of our employees, you know, vast majority, probably 90%, 95%, supported Trump in that election, and in 2024 as well. And actually we had Tim Walz visit us during the campaign in 2024. So yes, everyone kind of knows where my politics stand. So each one of our plants — we have seven plants — we have employee-only Facebook pages. And you're familiar with the Midwest? I know Facebook maybe has fallen out of favor in some demographics, but if you're between 30 and 50 in the Midwest, you're on Facebook, you know, for like multiple hours a day. And we have very candid conversations on there. Anyone says whatever they want. You know, someone called me ignorant once, you know, I'll never forget. He was like, you know, Sachin, don't play ignorant. You know, and it was about a ventilation issue in his area of the plant, and we got it fixed. But we have these pages, and on this, you know, they know where my politics stand. You know, the day after election when Trump won in 2024, I sent a note out to everybody saying, you know, that I voted differently, voted for Harris, but I'm excited, you know, about what this presidency can bring. And I'm excited because of, you know, tax reform. And I said, I'm excited about tariffs. Actually, at the time I was. And I said, you know, this is gonna be great for WAF. We are the type of company that this president wants to help. So I sent out that note, and actually our chairman, who lives in DC — he's a retired litigator — and he chimed in as well, saying, yep, I didn't support Trump either, but I'm excited for our company. And it was a great moment. We were all excited. And Q1 was excellent, you know — demand, the whole economy was like, yeah, this is good, you know? And then the tariffs hit, and then I've been candid the other way. I've been like, look, we supported this. Now look, it's not good. And the approach is just straight up candor. I'm in so many conversations every day, often with business people, and we're all like tiptoeing around this idea that we have a political preference, you know? And we either support this or don't. And, you know, I'm really just tired of those boring, you know, conversations where, how do you feel about today's economy? Well, it's okay. You know, there's good stuff and there's bad stuff, and you can't ever say — come land one way or the other. And we at our company just believe in the philosophy of if you're gonna say something, say something. You know, otherwise don't. And so that's the approach to politics, and I love it. I find it's very refreshing. I forward the articles I write. My first effort at this actually was six and a half years ago, when I joined the company. There's a local assemblyman who I can't stand. He's a Republican, and he was running for reelection, and I wrote a seething opinion piece in our local newspaper about it, and I posted it in our Facebook page, and it generated, you know, a lot of comments. And it's been that approach ever since.
Ben: I don't know many CEOs that would even say on the record who they voted for in the last United States presidential election. I also don't know many organizations that leverage Facebook. So many organizations say, no, we have to have that on Slack or Teams, and we have to control it, and, you know, all these things. So it's interesting that even in communicating with your employees, you're willing to use this external thing that you don't have full control over as a way to foster connection across these sites that you can't be at every day or all the time.
Sachin: I think it goes to actually an element of the philosophy behind, you know, what you do, you know, at PILOT, which is, you know, around democratizing engagement. And for us, for me, being on Facebook through our employee pages is a way to meet people where they are. You know, I think a more common practice might be, well, let me set up a Slack, or let me send out memos. And I think Facebook is one of many different ways that we meet people where they are and make engagement easy for them.
Ben: You've got this job and you're the first CEO that's not from the family of a nearly 120-year-old business, right? You're also an independent director on the boards of Broadwind and GrafTech, Lodge Manufacturing, ra, and New North, and you're involved in the — you're the chair of the Wisconsin Council on Workforce Development, trustee at not one but two universities. You're on other community boards, and you're even a Green Bay Packers director, and I know that's part of the shared ownership of that team, which is unique in the entire NFL. You do a lot. You'd think that if you didn't have a day job, that would be a lot. So I'm curious, why are you involved in all these things? Because it'd be enough to just do your day job, and at 44 years old, these are things that often people do kind of later in the twilight of their career, or as they're sort of transitioning out. You know, why do all this?
Sachin: I mean, the simple answer is it's fun. You know, I really enjoy engaging in business, especially at kind of a strategy level. And my day job is — there's a lot of strategy, but 95% of the day, as it should be, is around minutiae, you know? Quality defects in parts, and some employee didn't show up, and, you know, hiring and firing, and, you know, these kind of things — shipments and on-time delivery. And that part of my job is exhausting. And to me, serving on a board is actually a stress relief, you know, in that you get to go there and you get to engage in what is necessarily high level issues. I mean, I don't say this in like a, oh, I wash my hands of it type of manner, but it's not your job to execute — the thing which is the part of my job that is quite stressful is like, okay, you gotta go out and we wanna get into this market. Okay, sounds great on paper. Now you actually have to do all this stuff. You know, that is hard and exhausting. And, you know, I love participating on boards because it's a chance to have my mind 100% engaged on strategy. And why else to do it? Well, you know, I am firmly committed to being in our community. You know, it's — we live close to Green Bay, which is a city of a hundred thousand people. The broader, you know, one-hour radius of the area is probably 500,000, maybe 700,000 people. So not very big. I imagine, you know, 10 city blocks of Brooklyn have more economic activity and more people than our entire, you know, accessible drive radius area. It's not even a metro. I don't even know what you call that area. Maybe. Yeah. Catch. And so I am always looking to keep my life, you know, interesting and engaging. And all of these activities summed together keep me engaged in those ways. And so it's equal parts being fun, but also almost a necessity to relieve stress, but also just keep my mind alive.
Ben: And how do you manage the optics of both maybe your owners or your board for your day job, the people that you are responsible to, your employees and your management team, and then also your customers? Because they could, you know, sort of reductively view it as you being distracted, even if you're out lobbying to try to get childcare, or you're getting funds to help with economic development and innovating new services and becoming more competitive and getting technical assistance, et cetera. We both know that — we know it stimulates you, it satisfies you, et cetera. But how do you manage the optics?
Sachin: Yeah. You know, that is something that is always on my mind, you know — I don't even want people to have that perception, you know, of me. It's not like I'm always telling people about the other things that I'm working on, but the more powerful way is I make it my aim to never let anyone down, you know, in what I'm doing, especially in my core job. Like, our employees, no matter where the level, should know that they can always reach me, and they do. You know, whether it's through text and things like that, or, you know, personally walking into the office where I am right now, or seeing me on the shop floor. And I really go to great pains to know what is happening on a very detailed level across our operations. And so for instance, each morning at 8:05, I talk with our leadership team, and that conversation, you know, I go one by one — we have 11 people on the team — I go one by one, and we engage in detail, and I'll buttress the conversation with details that I have observed or picked up on through other channels — talking to somebody, seeing something. And so, you know, there's this little bit of a tension every day, which is like, oh, he knows about that thing, and uh-oh, it's because he's engaged, you know? So I never once want them to think that this guy is just not paying attention much, inattentive, or focused elsewhere.
Ben: Yeah. And if we were to look at the infrastructure that you deploy — 'cause you mentioned with your boys and making sure that they get their needs met, that you and your wife have dynamic careers, but you also are very committed to being great parents. If we looked under the hood a little bit, what's your infrastructure or support to keep track of? 'Cause I imagine those 8:05 meetings might conflict with a committee call for a board, or you might have a thing where there should be a customer pitch, but it's at the same time that you have a board retreat or a lobbying trip to DC or a media appearance or something else. So what's the air traffic control? What's the kind of organization, you know, in addition to those, you know, standup meetings? How do you stay, you know, in the details to hold people accountable and to know that you're engaged?
Sachin: Yeah. Three things I would say. One is, like probably all of us, really deploying technology — personal communication technology — to keep track of everything. You know, obviously calendar, we all use this, and, you know, my wife and I use calendar with intensity that probably rivals any user, but also getting everyone around me to use technology. I mean, there are so many manufacturing companies like ours that are really in, you know, backwaters of technology. My adoption of technology will only be so successful as I can get my ecosystem to do that. And so we really push technology, push their own communication, and then get everybody to be using those things so that we can use it effectively and I can use it effectively. Second is more old school, in that, you know, I have good, unique relationships with a lot of people, you know, and I can have three-minute conversations with them and quickly get to the meat of an issue. You know, one of my other pet peeve — I have a lot of pet peeves, but one of my pet peeves is, you know, talking about the weather. I cannot talk about the weather. It's just mania. I'm maniacal about — every word in a conversation should somehow be educating either you or me. You know, when someone comes into a meeting and just blathers about something that we all know, you know, it just drives me up the wall, because it's like you're wasting that precious time. But if you have good relationships, you know, you don't need to break the ice.
Ben: Sure. There's that background of relatedness that you have, so they know your intention and things like that. You can get right into it.
Sachin: Yeah, you get right into it. We talk three minutes, boom — and then that update, and probably I'll bring it up tomorrow on an 8:05 call. So that would be the second method, I think, is that relying old school on relationships. And the third is really old school, and this is more kind of in the family context, is conversation. Every morning my wife wakes up the kids, and then she goes to the gym in the morning. I think her class starts at 5:45.
Ben: Oh my goodness. Okay.
Sachin: And so — and then my role is I make breakfast for the boys, and we just talk, you know, and just — there's no TV, there's nothing. And then similarly, every Friday we go out to dinner, just the four of us, and have really intense conversation — funny, you know, joking, but is very cathartic — and we will be at the table, you know, for hours. Like last week, Friday, we went to a very fancy restaurant called Ever, in Chicago. It was our 13-year-old's birthday present. He's a maddeningly fastidious foodie, you know, who has very expensive tastes, which we know we're happy to humor. But as we went to — it is like a, you know, very fancy place, and we were there for, I don't know, two and a half, three hours. And I could kind of tell they kind of wanted to keep the table moving. But, you know, we just really enjoy that time. So, you know, that kind of old school conversation that is, you know, therapeutic — it's, you know, it helps us engage, it helps us learn about each other. That is fundamental, you know, maybe even more important than those first two things.
Ben: Sachin, I was curious, you know — if someone's thinking about kind of making the case, sometimes you have to have approvals from a compliance or conflict of interest perspective to get on a board — you know, what has been accretive or benefited the foundry by you doing things outside of the foundry?
Sachin: You know, there's been tactical things, there are strategic things, and I think there are also understanding-of-the-economy aspects. You know, on the tactical side, here's an example. I'm on the board of a company called Lodge Cast Iron, which makes the best cast iron skillets, you know, in the world — made right here in America, in Tennessee — and a wonderful family-owned company. And to help fund an expansion, they used a really not widely known program through the US Treasury called a New Markets Tax Credit. It's used to help fund development in low income or rural census tracts. And they use this, and it's 25% of your capital investment that can be offset through this program. So very powerful. And so Lodge used it, you know, they have a great CFO who found that out. And then I brought that back to our company. I was like, hey, if we looked into this thing — and we were about to launch a big expansion ourselves. And so turned out we were in one of those census tracts, both rural and low income. And so we did, and, you know, it was a $25 million investment for us. That's — 25% of that was paid for by this New Markets Tax Credit. So our company saved, you know, $7 million through this. And I think whatever time I'm spending at Lodge is more than paid for, you know, by that one thing — $7 million. And so there are a lot of tactics like that, you know, whether it's forecasting or talent management, all sorts of things that I learn about from boards that I immediately bring back. I mean, our leadership team sometimes groans about it. I'm like, hey, you know, I was in this board meeting and this guy did this one thing, or this woman did this thing — and why aren't we doing it? You know? And so there's a lot of that. But there's also just, you know, general strategic thinking, you know, around investing and what's value creative — that just that learning, you know, when you're excising that one portion of business activity and focusing only on it — very powerful. And then markets — there are certain markets that are in manufacturing that are doing great, and some that are in the doldrums, and we're constantly trying to figure out, like, what's gonna be the next one? Where are we headed? You know? And by seeing inside view of all these companies, I get that vantage point.
Ben: I think too few executives get out, whether it's a community event or a conference or these things. But to your point of the curiosity and the stimulation and connecting dots and learning things — and a $7 million savings is pretty tremendous to a business of your size and margins. And so I think that that's incredible. The last two questions I have for you, Sachin. The first is: any advice for folks that want to get on a board? How do they lay the groundwork? 'Cause that doesn't happen quickly, typically. And the second is, what's the best part of being a part of the Green Bay Packers?
Sachin: On the first one, I'll probably give the answer that most people do, which is it's about relationships. Inviting someone onto a board is like — they gotta really trust you, and they gotta understand what sort of insight you might contribute, and if it's gonna be helpful. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing most people get on boards by you knowing people who are on a board, and then when there's a vacancy, they think of you. And that's how it's worked out for me. And I think the best way for people to develop relationships is actually to work together, often on a board, you know, and it starts with the community. The first board I was ever on was for our local technical college, and it was actually not even the technical college itself, it was their foundation. But then someone there is another CEO or something, and they see you working, and, you know, that's how you kind of build on that. You know, I'd say invest time in relationships, especially ones where people see you and your mind at work. Being on the Packers board, it's the best collection of people you could imagine. Everybody's doing something unique. And it's not just business people, it's nonprofit leaders. And that is the best part — being in a room with all those people, and the collegiality that comes with it, and maybe eventually doing something together in business. It's like the same thing I'd say — you know, people ask me, like, oh, you know, why'd you go to law school? Or, where did you get outta law school? Or, you know, you don't practice law. And I'd say the same thing — like, you know, my best friends in life came from that time. I feel like you look back on anything you do, and those things are worthwhile and personally fulfilling when you're on a platform where you can make new relationships, in a good shoulder-to-shoulder way. And everyone knows that, you know, nobody on the board is calling any plays or making any, you know, personnel trades. So you never have to answer for that, you know — that's done by the professionals.
Ben: Well, I think, you know, I think about myself, and I've started on a community board as well. And then it turned into being an advisor of a commercial organization, and then it turned into going to that person's wedding, and then, you know, doing other things. And again, those relationships — I think getting started is the key thing there.
Sachin: Yeah.
Ben: So Sachin, as we wrap up our conversation, we like to ask our guests what's sticky and what are they thinking about. What is, you know, something that might either be keeping you up at night 'cause you're passionate, or you're concerned or worried, or you're committed. What's that for you?
Sachin: The issue of childcare. Our company and I have done a lot of advocacy around, you know, investing in childcare and things that kids need. And the point I always try to make — and people always bring me into these conversations saying, okay, tell us about the workforce impact of not having childcare. And so my line that I'm supposed to talk about is, well, we won't have the labor force if we don't have childcare and women in the workplace, and et cetera. But really, actually, what makes me passionate about this — and to the point where it gets me emotional every time I discuss it — is it's about child's brain development. You know, the brain development that happens between those ages of zero and five, and how important that is, and how kids need to be in enriching environments. The thing that also set me on this path was a study that someone I grew up with in high school, went to college with — he's a famous economist, his name is Raj Chetty — and one of his earliest studies that put him on the map was he looked at the impact of a kindergarten teacher on a person's life trajectory and what it means in terms of income. And it was such a obvious thing that most of us know, that, you know, the people that you have in your life in those early years make an outsize impact, and truly your trajectory often revolves around or depends on who your kindergarten teacher was and how engaged they were. But it extends to everything, you know — like how engaged is your family and what environment do you have. And I was talking with one of our employees — and this was another one of the moments that set me off on this path — and he's a single dad, and he's raising his kid on his own. And I asked him what he does for childcare, and he takes her to a different — she was four years old at the time — takes her to a different home each day, and, you know, leaves her with a neighbor or somebody, anybody who's able to care. And I was just imagining her day, you know? And it can't possibly be the enriching environment that she needs, even though she's probably loved by everybody. It made me so sad. And kind of galvanized our company around, we gotta do something. And we do support our employees with a, you know, monthly stipend to pay for childcare. And we've advocated for more structural solutions, but all around this idea of brain development. And came home again to me last week — my wife and I, after dinner, we're just having another one of those extended conversations, very cathartic, about, you know, what influenced you as a kid. And there were experiences she related that were negative, you know, and it just really made me think about how that all impacts your entire life. And it recommitted, you know — we gotta do everything we can, you know, to invest in the experiences our children have — children in our community, our own personal children — in those very, very, very formative times. You know, so when you ask about what is sticky, this is sticky, you know. It is definitely front of mind in every conversation I'm having.
Ben: Well, Sachin, shout out to the educators in all of our lives. My mom spent her career in the community college system, and my sister was Teach For America alum and taught in New York City public schools for almost a decade. And so to anyone out there that may be a relative of, or if you're a teacher educator yourself — thank you for your service, and absolutely for shaping the future generations.
Sachin: Yeah.
Ben: Welcome to the Uplift, a segment where we ask guests to promote something that they have been obsessed with recently. And you know what? That thing may just be perfect for you too. So let's hear what our guest wants to share and uplift this week.
Sachin: Well, we talked a lot about, you know, family time and dinners and conversation. And our favorite dinner spot, actually, where we're going this week, Friday, is a supper club, which is a type of Wisconsin restaurant. It probably came from, you know, when everybody was farmers. And, you know, on Friday nights you finally have your fancy meal, you know, tablecloths and silverware. Nothing like, you know, Michelin-star fancy, but, you know, fancy for your farming community. And so there are all these little supper clubs, and they have great little bars, and you have a cocktail before, and you get shown to your table, and it's just a wonderful experience. And so our favorite one is called the Union Hotel. It's in De Pere, Wisconsin. 150 years old or so, owned by a family. Father runs the place, his kids are waiters, and it's just — they know you, and we feel like we're at home there. And it's such a wonderful little gem in our community. And you almost hesitate to tell people about it, 'cause now it's gonna be the place everybody goes, maybe. But it's just such a intensely pleasurable thing for us, and we really look forward to going there on Friday nights.
Ben: We'll have a Schlitz root beer for the boys, maybe some cheese curds and some lake perch, if that's the, like, proper Wisconsin meal. Yeah, a hundred percent right. Well, Sachin, thanks for making time for me and for our listeners, and generously sharing how you navigate being involved as a leader beyond the walls of your organization to benefit everyone, including yourself. So Sachin, thank you for coming today.
Sachin: Thank you, Ben. This is such an honor — really, an honor and a privilege to be on your podcast, and appreciate all the work you're doing and getting these messages out to hardworking people out there.
Ben: Thanks for joining me this week on The Lift. For more info on what you heard in today's episode, visit our show notes. You can find bonus resources at pilot.coach/thelift. If listening to The Lift today was a good use of your time, please share it with a colleague, a friend — I don't know, your ex, your mother, anyone. Don't let good advice die with you. And for those of you who like to earn a little bit of extra credit, leave a comment on Spotify. We'd love to hear from you. The Lift is produced and edited by the team at editaudio. This episode was produced and edited by Ali. Our production manager is Kathleen Speckert. Our executive producer is Steph Colbourn. A special thanks to Korey Rich and Beth Gatsik. There's only one way to go: upward.
Ben: Well, Sachin, welcome to The Lift. Quite a surprise. One of our values as a company is vibrant, and we like to bring a vibe to our — yeah, wow — reaction.
Sachin: When I have my kids listen to this podcast, I'll have to edit out the swears from my pump-up song.
